none of this is helping the rupert murdoch brand. but to the american who doesn't pay a lot of attention, probably not a lot of impact, unless congressional hearings or an investigation turns up anything here in the united states. at the moment, there's no evidence of that. >> now that we know what was going on over there with the phone hacking, does it -- does it bring the headlines that his paper has generated clearer to you as to where this information was coming from? >> i don't think that there's any question. in fact, we kind of knew this is the way the murdoch tabloids operated. look at last year, since closed by murdoch in the hacking scandal, had one reporter get hidden camera video of sarah ferguson. there's a market in the uk and perhaps america, too, for the kind of journalism that these tabloids practice, but there's also a line that you can't cross, a line of illegalality when you have phone hacking, but when you turn it to ordinary people, the reaction is different. and the wall street journal has an editorial saying b